Welcome to the internet age where appearance is everything and substance means nearly nothing.

gothconfessions:

This is sort of just my thoughts after having become an admin here. I mean, I used to think that the gothic subculture was awesome. Of course I have dealt with in scene heckling, “You’re a poseur.” and whatnot, but I really felt it was an isolated incident. I don’t fucking care at ALL what somebody else does, because as a general rule, I don’t think that other peoples clothing/music choices, reflect on me, or my ability to dress the way I want and listen to what I want.

There is so much hate, or confessions about hate from other goths, in the inbox. I think some people need to quit using the gothic subculture as a reason to refuse to mature. If you are picking on a fucking kid about the way they perceive the subculture, AND NOT BEING CONSTRUCTIVELY CRITICAL, then fuck you! People like you are the reason that some people don’t enjoy our subculture, or even if they do they don’t claim it as their home.

What is the point of this incessant need to piss on people who look at the subculture differently? 

And from now on, people should start paying attention to past post, before they get angry about their confessions not being posted. 

Hating on pastel/hipster/nu-goths = Confession already posted

Hating on metal being considered goth = Confession already posted

ETC ETC

I am not saying that people are not allowed to have negative confessions, I am saying however, if a similar confession to your’s has already been done we are unlikely to make it. So don’t get mad.

This was suppose to be a safe place to confess things, and have people understand you and it has turned into a big fat hate fest of “I’m more goth than you.” Some people seem to think that because other goths hated on them as younger goths, that they now have the right to do it to others. Maybe if you didn’t do it to them, it could lessen this cycle of unending hate, because mother fuckers I’m TIRED OF IT!

I’m also not saying that my opinion should matter to any of you, this is just my longwinded semi-confession.

=] ‘kay I’m done ranting, all of you have a nice evening! -Batss



Some excellent points here. But I’d like to add some a lot of people don’t consider.

To start with we are all new once and we all got things wrong. Learning and being corrected when you get something wrong (eg - calling a non-goth band a goth band) is how you learn. When someone corrects you for getting it wrong it isn’t hate, bullying or oppression - its informing you that you are incorrect. There should be no malice intended but I can see why some people may perceive it, especially teenagers. Teenagers hate being corrected and often see it as someone putting them down. Its not the case.

That said there is a right and a wrong way to correct someone. Insulting them or acting like a dick when doing it will make you look like an arsehole. Better to be blunt, stick to the point and keep emotions out of it. You are correcting a piece of factual information/knowledge not berating them for not knowing any better. Don’t just say they are wrong, explain why they are wrong. The best way to change someone’s mind is to offer a counter argument and not insult them in the process.

But

There are cases where someone is set in their mind they are always right whether they are or not. This goes for poseurs, babybats, elders - anyone. Not everyone wants learn what goth is all about and will simply assume what they think its about is right even if they have no idea or they simply don’t care. You can’t educate these people because they have no desire to learn. For many like this any form of correction will be seen as oppression.

Lets not sugar-coat it - goth isn’t for everyone. Its not meant to be for everyone. This means some people won’t get it or be accepted as goths. Goths are generally tolerant of differences but who is and isn’t considered to be goth is a contentious issue. 

I find the whole ‘gothier than thou’ thing as laughable as all the various goth labels out there. You are goth or you are not. Type of goth or how  much goth is irrelevant and it confuses people. 

For those learning (which technically is all of us as you never stop learning) don’t just follow a single opinion blindly. It doesn’t matter how popular someone is or if they seem to be an expert take what they have to say on board and wigh it up with what you know. Do some research into the subculture you claim to love and be a part of. Get multiple opinions and facts then form your own opinion. If you have an informed opinion and can confidently back it up then people will be less likely to correct you. You may even do a little polite correcting yourself one day.

All of us at times let it get to our heads and build up a massive goth ego. Try to keep your goth ego in check because its a balloon and there will always be someone out there with a sharp pin to pop it. We’ve all let our egos run rampant at times in the past and have been thoughtless, its part of being human. Its okay not to be dressed to the nines 24/7. Its okay to not know everything about every goth band. Its okay to not live and breathe goth 24/7 and constantly force it down people’s throats. In fact any of that stuff can make you come across as annoying and trying too hard, possibly making people question your ‘gothiness’ even more.

If you participate in the goth subculture in some way and have an interest in goth music then you can call yourself a goth. Simple. If you claim to be goth and you aren’t getting it right people will correct you and/or say you are not goth. But that doesn’t mean people have a right to be dicks when correcting people.

From a modern sense (say 2005 and after) I tend to agree. It reinforces the ‘everything is goth’ and ‘goth is whatever you want it to be’ things. I’m amazed they haven’t added stuff like pastel goth and nu goth to it yet to be honest.

Plus it takes the emphasis off the music which is pretty silly as goth is a music subculture. Sure its grown and diversified in ways but the music is still the core.

Is it just me or are events in general polarising more and not playing industrial/EBM beside goth as much as it used to be done? Real goth events are focusing on real goth music and mixed genre events try to avoid the dreaded goth word. I see this as a good thing. While both are dark alternative only one is goth.

But lets look at it realistically. Most goths don’t stick to a single style anyway and that is why fashion is less important. Types of goth are irrelevant - you either are or you aren’t. Black or white. Shades of grey and splashes of colour are irrelevant as is the need to label everything exactly.

Plus it seems the terms perky goth and candy goth are used interchangeably now. Perky goth has nothing to do with fashion - its merely a goth who tends to be more upbeat and positive. In effect the opposite of mopey goth. At least thats what it meant in the 90s, back then a cyber goth was merely a goth who is on the internet a lot.

But people take terms, misinterpret them and twist their meaning. Then more people do the same, it spreads and suddenly you have everyone believing the term has always meant what the misinterpretation says, especially if a couple of prominent people who are considered ‘experts’ jump on board too.

Hell years ago the term ‘babybat’ wasn’t even a thing now people debate whether its a nice term or an insult. 

But the biggest part people forget (or are too young to even know or remember) is that these descriptive labels of goths were originally made as a joke. A joke people now take seriously. Come on people! Why so gullible?!?

Couldn’t have said it better myself

Oh wait, I already did. Don’t believe me? See who the original poster is ;)

elder-goth:

I’m sorry to hear that. <:(

Part of me thinks one does have to go through a kind of testing period before they’re accepted into a group because of the droves of (mostly) cliquey, ignorant teenagers that ruin everything.

Still, I know in many (maybe most?) circumstances in Goth circles its not a matter of letting people simply get to know, trust, and like you- it’s just bullying.

I get that many people want to be left alone by people they feel are taking over a scene they love, I really do, but often we lose sight of that reasonable goal and start mocking people we don’t know without giving them a real chance; the way people did do us as kids (or now).

This sucks for the scene, and it can truly hurt people. It can be devastating to feel rejected by the only people you thought would understand you.

DON’T GIVE UP! HERE ARE SOME TIPS!

• Don’t start with blogs/websites about a specific Goth subculture. 
• Realize most of the people putting you down are likely posers. I’m sorry to use that word; but, fuck it, it’s true. They have a shallow, over-simplified idea of what the scene is and don’t love it enough to share it with others. They’ll grow out of it.
• Instead, start by searching tags of YOUR favorite bands, YOUR favorite movies, YOUR favorite looks, etc.
• Follow people YOU like. Comment on posts you like. If you find a blog you like, tell them, or - follow them and when they open themselves up for asks send one. (That can be less awkward if you’re super shy.)
• The idea here is that:

1. You’ll meet people you will get along with because of genuine shared interests
2. You’ll enjoy yourself because you’re focusing on what YOU want and like as opposed to want other people want from you.
3. You’ll eventually find your way into a group without proving yourself; it will happen more organically.

As for real life… it’s harder but similar. Band shirts, patches, tattoos- your look in general, can help like-minded people notice you and start a conversation. 

Seek out music stores, coffee shops, clothing stores, clubs, etc. that you like. Most people in the scene I’ve met are very friendly, nerdy, cuties who will give you a real chance if you’re just polite.

Some good answers here. Also don’t be too offended or defensive if you get something wrong and people correct you. It will happen and has happened to all of us. People respect someone who is making an attempt to learn more over someone who assumes to know it all. Hell I still learn new things myself.