Yesterday from about 5pm onwards I decided to post a series of clips to music on my facebook, kind of like an impromptu DJ set with a few commets along the way…
Deliberately posting non-goth music on World Goth Day because I can. Isn’t goth meant to be everything now anyway???
Seikiera - Nowa Aleksandria
She Wants Revenge - These Things
Sopor Aeternus - Dead Souls
Marie Moor - Pretty Day
No Kisses - Swastika Sally
Untoten vs Soko Friedhof - Die Out By The Sea
Victorian goth enough for you? OH THE DRAMA!!! *faints*
Army of Lovers - Crucified
Peter Spilles is so awesome. Ronan Harris has his moments of greatness too.
IMATEM - Haven
One of mine. I’m a fucking showpony - what else did you expect?
Corpulence on the Catwalk - Watch and Wait
Electric Hellfire Club - Incubus (Leather Strip mix)
Lights of Euphoria - In Love With The Night
One of their lesser known tracks but a favourite of mine
SNOG - Flesh
Angelfish - Suffocate Me
The Horrors - Count in Fives
The Cruxshadows - Deception
Learn to laugh at yourselves you sad twats ;)
Voltaire - The Vampire Club
Did you expect anything else as the last song?
Thoushaltnot - If I Only Were A Goth
…and not a single real goth song was played.
Welcome to the internet age where appearance is everything and substance means nearly nothing.
Yep, its May 22nd again. Whoopie…
World Goth Day does nothing for me. I shall explain why.
To start with the date doesn’t mean anything. Why not the first date Bauhaus played ‘Bela Lugosi’s Dead’ live or something like that? Even the date of the opening of The Batcave would have some significance. But no - May 22nd is pretty much a random date plucked out of the air that doesn’t clash with anything. Its close to when Wave Gothik Treffen is on, thats about it.
World Goth Day wasn’t established to really do anything. Anyone into goth is doing what they normally do anyway If anything it encourages outsiders to treat it like a second Halloween, maybe make a mockery of it.
I remember when it first came about something being said about ringing up and requesting goth music on the radio. You aren’t going to ring up a mainstream radio station and ask them to play Sisters of Mercy or Siouxsie. The most you might get away with is requesting The Cure or a more mainstream friendly song like Eloise by The Damned or She Sells Sanctuary by The Cult on an 80s/retro radio show.
It draws goth into the mainstream in a bad way because there is no meaning behind it. Goth subculture is already watered down and marginalised enough as it is (eg - the rise of pastel goth). The focus now is on style over substance for many and a meaningless day adds to the hollowness of it all.
You can bet your life it will be used for commercial gains. I have already seen one ‘goth day sale’ ad and I expect to see more. It will eventually become for alternative clothing designers (whether they are goth or not) the equivalence of Valentines Day for florists.
It feels like it was just created so the creators could gain some feeling of online fame without really doing anything. It feels cheap because it has no value or reason behind it - it simply just is. But like anything with the word ‘goth’ attached to it the doom cookies eat it up with a spoon.
I wouldn’t say I hate World Goth Day, its more a case of asking ‘what is the point?’ and ‘do we really need it?’
Last night, the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York hosted the 2013 Met Gala. This year’s theme was “Punk: From Chaos To Couture.” For many celebrities, this was the first time they had used the word “punk” in a sentence that wasn’t “Have my assistant get me Daft Punk tickets.” It was also an excuse for them to spend $10,000 to spike their hair up and play punk dress up for a night. When interviewed, they all sounded like total shitheads talking out of their asses. Here’s what some of them had to say in these actual quotes from the red carpet…
In a way the only one who got it was Gwyneth Paltrow who clearly went as un-punk as possible because the theme is supposed to be punk.
Stuff like this reminds me why the term ‘poseur’ came to be in the first place. Also why its still in use today.
But you could replace each use of the term ‘punk’ with ‘goth’ and it would be a fairly accurate depiction on why the fashionistas don’t get it in goth either.
Welcome to ythe modern age where everything is everything now.
I love classical music!
I think much Romantic Era, Baroque, and even more modern symphonic music is Gothic (not Gothic Rock, obviously, just Gothy-type music). Mendelssohn and Chopin both have a sublime melancholy. Debussy is lush, gorgeous, and introspective. Bach, come on! His toccatas! All his organ music is the stuff of Gothy wet dreams. How many Goth bands and horror movies have covered or sampled Toccata en Fugue in D minor alone?
I think the Russians bring the same gravity, darkness, and bold emotion to their music as they famously did with their literature, ie Prokofiev (listen to Dance of the Knights from Romeo and Juliet), Tchaikovsky, and crazy ol’ Stravinsky.
Mozart was kind of the Robert Smith of Classical music (NO ONE calls him that), as his seemed either manic or depressed at times. Don Giovani, namely the final overture; “The Commendatore Scene” is pretty morose, even a little horrifying (in a good way ;p), and his unfinished Requiem in D Minor is in turns heart-breaking, and terrifying but always beautiful. Lacrimosa, should be familiar to most Goths.
But, of course, then there is the Edgar Allen Poe of Classical music: (NO ONE calls him that) Beethoven.
Bach is so skilled, Mozart so talented, Debussy so beautiful, but Beethoven makes your feelings his bitch.
Moonlight Sonata seems to redeem despair but nearly stops your heart in the process. His 7th Symphony, especially Opus 92, is the very sound of heartache. Even Ode to Joy only gives you that feeling of elation because of the struggle that finally gives way. It’s so intensely bittersweet it can leave you broken… you know, in a good way.
I barely touched on Opera with Don Giovanni. It’s all killing, ghosts, murder, unrequited love, homicide, and other tragedies.
So, now you have me confused.
I think that music is extremely Gothic, but I still think you have to like Gothic Rock, Death Rock, Positive Punk, etc as well to be a Goth.
The Cure and the Banshees are a great start! I bet if you explore more Gothic music (maybe Ethereal? have you tried Dead Can Dance yet?) you will find even more Goth music you like.
You’re an interesting person with depth who cares about dark, Romantic music; it sounds like you are a part of this community! Keep searching for music you like and enjoy! Do more things that make you feel good (and don’t hurt you or others, of course) and don’t be too hard on yourself.
This analysis explains the difference between ‘goth’ and ‘gothic’ music well and why there is a difference.
Classical = dark romantic
Goth rock, deathrock, dark wave, some post-punk = goth
Not everything with dark elements is goth by default.
This is sort of just my thoughts after having become an admin here. I mean, I used to think that the gothic subculture was awesome. Of course I have dealt with in scene heckling, “You’re a poseur.” and whatnot, but I really felt it was an isolated incident. I don’t fucking care at ALL what somebody else does, because as a general rule, I don’t think that other peoples clothing/music choices, reflect on me, or my ability to dress the way I want and listen to what I want.
There is so much hate, or confessions about hate from other goths, in the inbox. I think some people need to quit using the gothic subculture as a reason to refuse to mature. If you are picking on a fucking kid about the way they perceive the subculture, AND NOT BEING CONSTRUCTIVELY CRITICAL, then fuck you! People like you are the reason that some people don’t enjoy our subculture, or even if they do they don’t claim it as their home.
What is the point of this incessant need to piss on people who look at the subculture differently?
And from now on, people should start paying attention to past post, before they get angry about their confessions not being posted.
Hating on pastel/hipster/nu-goths = Confession already posted
Hating on metal being considered goth = Confession already posted
I am not saying that people are not allowed to have negative confessions, I am saying however, if a similar confession to your’s has already been done we are unlikely to make it. So don’t get mad.
This was suppose to be a safe place to confess things, and have people understand you and it has turned into a big fat hate fest of “I’m more goth than you.” Some people seem to think that because other goths hated on them as younger goths, that they now have the right to do it to others. Maybe if you didn’t do it to them, it could lessen this cycle of unending hate, because mother fuckers I’m TIRED OF IT!
I’m also not saying that my opinion should matter to any of you, this is just my longwinded semi-confession.
=] ‘kay I’m done ranting, all of you have a nice evening! -Batss
Some excellent points here. But I’d like to add some a lot of people don’t consider.
To start with we are all new once and we all got things wrong. Learning and being corrected when you get something wrong (eg - calling a non-goth band a goth band) is how you learn. When someone corrects you for getting it wrong it isn’t hate, bullying or oppression - its informing you that you are incorrect. There should be no malice intended but I can see why some people may perceive it, especially teenagers. Teenagers hate being corrected and often see it as someone putting them down. Its not the case.
That said there is a right and a wrong way to correct someone. Insulting them or acting like a dick when doing it will make you look like an arsehole. Better to be blunt, stick to the point and keep emotions out of it. You are correcting a piece of factual information/knowledge not berating them for not knowing any better. Don’t just say they are wrong, explain why they are wrong. The best way to change someone’s mind is to offer a counter argument and not insult them in the process.
There are cases where someone is set in their mind they are always right whether they are or not. This goes for poseurs, babybats, elders - anyone. Not everyone wants learn what goth is all about and will simply assume what they think its about is right even if they have no idea or they simply don’t care. You can’t educate these people because they have no desire to learn. For many like this any form of correction will be seen as oppression.
Lets not sugar-coat it - goth isn’t for everyone. Its not meant to be for everyone. This means some people won’t get it or be accepted as goths. Goths are generally tolerant of differences but who is and isn’t considered to be goth is a contentious issue.
I find the whole ‘gothier than thou’ thing as laughable as all the various goth labels out there. You are goth or you are not. Type of goth or how much goth is irrelevant and it confuses people.
For those learning (which technically is all of us as you never stop learning) don’t just follow a single opinion blindly. It doesn’t matter how popular someone is or if they seem to be an expert take what they have to say on board and wigh it up with what you know. Do some research into the subculture you claim to love and be a part of. Get multiple opinions and facts then form your own opinion. If you have an informed opinion and can confidently back it up then people will be less likely to correct you. You may even do a little polite correcting yourself one day.
All of us at times let it get to our heads and build up a massive goth ego. Try to keep your goth ego in check because its a balloon and there will always be someone out there with a sharp pin to pop it. We’ve all let our egos run rampant at times in the past and have been thoughtless, its part of being human. Its okay not to be dressed to the nines 24/7. Its okay to not know everything about every goth band. Its okay to not live and breathe goth 24/7 and constantly force it down people’s throats. In fact any of that stuff can make you come across as annoying and trying too hard, possibly making people question your ‘gothiness’ even more.
If you participate in the goth subculture in some way and have an interest in goth music then you can call yourself a goth. Simple. If you claim to be goth and you aren’t getting it right people will correct you and/or say you are not goth. But that doesn’t mean people have a right to be dicks when correcting people.
From a modern sense (say 2005 and after) I tend to agree. It reinforces the ‘everything is goth’ and ‘goth is whatever you want it to be’ things. I’m amazed they haven’t added stuff like pastel goth and nu goth to it yet to be honest.
Plus it takes the emphasis off the music which is pretty silly as goth is a music subculture. Sure its grown and diversified in ways but the music is still the core.
Is it just me or are events in general polarising more and not playing industrial/EBM beside goth as much as it used to be done? Real goth events are focusing on real goth music and mixed genre events try to avoid the dreaded goth word. I see this as a good thing. While both are dark alternative only one is goth.
But lets look at it realistically. Most goths don’t stick to a single style anyway and that is why fashion is less important. Types of goth are irrelevant - you either are or you aren’t. Black or white. Shades of grey and splashes of colour are irrelevant as is the need to label everything exactly.
Plus it seems the terms perky goth and candy goth are used interchangeably now. Perky goth has nothing to do with fashion - its merely a goth who tends to be more upbeat and positive. In effect the opposite of mopey goth. At least thats what it meant in the 90s, back then a cyber goth was merely a goth who is on the internet a lot.
But people take terms, misinterpret them and twist their meaning. Then more people do the same, it spreads and suddenly you have everyone believing the term has always meant what the misinterpretation says, especially if a couple of prominent people who are considered ‘experts’ jump on board too.
Hell years ago the term ‘babybat’ wasn’t even a thing now people debate whether its a nice term or an insult.
But the biggest part people forget (or are too young to even know or remember) is that these descriptive labels of goths were originally made as a joke. A joke people now take seriously. Come on people! Why so gullible?!?
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Oh wait, I already did. Don’t believe me? See who the original poster is ;)
GothHateCrime is real and it must end. Sophie was just 20 years old. She had her whole life ahead of her. Live and let live @sophie_charity
Seen on twitter today.
If anyone is wondering: goth hate crime is not real.
not surprised this comes out of the uk, where most of the white people there seem terminally incapable of grappling with their countries’ disgusting history and the fact that they are generally vicious white supremacists
As a Goth…
No. Oh FUCK no. Sophie’s murder was a horrible tragedy, and was indeed caused over her way of dressing but are you serious.
Aren’t all violent crimes hate crimes? Shouldn’t all assaults/mansalughters/murders/rapes be punished harshly no matter who they are instigated against?
The people who commit these sorts of crimes (like with Sophie Lancaster) are opportunists with chips on their shoulders. They are looking for a soft target - any target. Its about seizing power and control. The old lines of ‘they look weird’ or ‘he looks like a fag’ or ‘she is dressed like a slut’ are just an excuse for being a violent arsehole and taking that opportunity.
Being drunk or on drugs is no excuse. Lots of people in the world can be intoxicated and not be violent. Its simply a matter of self control, respect for the law and respect for others.
In skinhead culture I have heard violence is common and if they can’t find a target they simply fight each other. Not sure if chavs/ bogans/ rednecks/ whatevers are the same or not. But a violent arsehole is still a violent arsehole no matter their motivation.
I’m sorry to hear that. <:(
Part of me thinks one does have to go through a kind of testing period before they’re accepted into a group because of the droves of (mostly) cliquey, ignorant teenagers that ruin everything.
Still, I know in many (maybe most?) circumstances in Goth circles its not a matter of letting people simply get to know, trust, and like you- it’s just bullying.
I get that many people want to be left alone by people they feel are taking over a scene they love, I really do, but often we lose sight of that reasonable goal and start mocking people we don’t know without giving them a real chance; the way people did do us as kids (or now).
This sucks for the scene, and it can truly hurt people. It can be devastating to feel rejected by the only people you thought would understand you.
DON’T GIVE UP! HERE ARE SOME TIPS!
- Don’t start with blogs/websites about a specific Goth subculture.
- Realize most of the people putting you down are likely posers. I’m sorry to use that word; but, fuck it, it’s true. They have a shallow, over-simplified idea of what the scene is and don’t love it enough to share it with others. They’ll grow out of it.
- Instead, start by searching tags of YOUR favorite bands, YOUR favorite movies, YOUR favorite looks, etc.
- Follow people YOU like. Comment on posts you like. If you find a blog you like, tell them, or - follow them and when they open themselves up for asks send one. (That can be less awkward if you’re super shy.)
- The idea here is that:
- You’ll meet people you will get along with because of genuine shared interests
- You’ll enjoy yourself because you’re focusing on what YOU want and like as opposed to want other people want from you.
- You’ll eventually find your way into a group without proving yourself; it will happen more organically.
As for real life… it’s harder but similar. Band shirts, patches, tattoos- your look in general, can help like-minded people notice you and start a conversation.
Seek out music stores, coffee shops, clothing stores, clubs, etc. that you like. Most people in the scene I’ve met are very friendly, nerdy, cuties who will give you a real chance if you’re just polite.
Some good answers here. Also don’t be too offended or defensive if you get something wrong and people correct you. It will happen and has happened to all of us. People respect someone who is making an attempt to learn more over someone who assumes to know it all. Hell I still learn new things myself.